In episode 6 of Flightpath with Alok, Alok is joined in the studio by Aidan Reynolds, Chief Technical Officer of Jackson Square Aviation (JSA), ranked one of the top twenty aircraft lessors in 2022. Aidan has extensive aviation experience having spent over 37 years working in a wide variety of roles encompassing engine shops, OEMs, aircraft maintenance, leasing and trading. Prior to JSA, Aidan worked for some well known companies including, more recently, Macquarie Aviation Capital as Head of Technical, and Director of Operations, Europe, Middle East and Africa for Pratt & Whitney. During a recent visit to Bangalore, Aidan spoke to Alok about the early years, career progression, current market trends and more. We find out how, as a small boy from Dublin, following in the footsteps of both his father and older brother, he developed a fascination of engines. We hear how it was this fascination that led him to apply for a position with Airmotive Ireland, a then subsidiary of AerLingus; how he navigated a period of very high unemployment in the '80’s, and how he managed to acquire the knowledge and skills needed to do what he does today. This is another example for young professionals with a natural aptitude for engineering, showing how you can use your passion and interests to help drive you forward and seek out an exciting and rewarding career, whether in aircraft leasing and asset management or something else entirely. #assetmanagement #aviation #aircraftleasing #aviationfinance #flightpath #alok #flightpathwithalok Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alokanand23/ Watch our video podcasts here: https://www.youtube.com/flightpathwithalok Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/flightpathwithalok Podcast: https://linktr.ee/flightpathwithalok Produced & Distributed by Spooler https://www.spooler.in Transcript  Alok-Hi everyone. Welcome to the latest episode of Flightpath with Alok. Today I have a very special guest and I think this is a very special episode we are recording, because for the first time we have a guest in person in our studios, Mr. Aidan Reynolds. Please join me in welcoming him. He has made time to be in person. He happened to be visiting Bangalore and I took the opportunity to request him to join us in person. Aidan, welcome to the show. Aidan-Many thanks Alok. It's a pleasure to be here. Alok-Maybe if you'll care to please share with our audience, your career journey, your own background, and how you managed to get into aviation and what you do now. It'd be great to know. Aidan-Sure thing. I grew up in Dublin and the reason I sort of chose engineering as a career path was my father was an engineer and my elder brother was an engineer. And when I was a kid, I always liked, you know, fixing bikes, the girls, when I was younger, and that led into motor bikes and cars. And I always had a fascination with engines. So my first foray into aviation was working for Airmotive Ireland in Dublin. There was a subsidiary of Aer Lingus and we were overhauling, started on old 707 Boeing 707 engines, JT3Ds. Also, 737, 200 JT 8D engines. And, 747 JT 9D engines. And I had a great experience working in Airmotive Ireland. One of the CEO at the time was a gentleman by the name of Oliver Boden. Oliver was a great driving force in that business, and somebody I really aspired to. And also one of your previous guests on this podcast was a man by the name of Hank Gibson. He mentioned that his first foray into aviation was with a company called Aeges and, which the CEO at the time was Oliver Boden. So it's quite interesting how, you know, our different paths are intertwined. But in Dublin at that time in the early 80, mid eighties it wasn't a very pleasant place to be. Unemployment was, especially, you know, young people unemployment was extremely high and, to progress, and I was an ambitious person. To progress in that you were waiting for dead men's shoes is what we used to say. You know, the people didn't leave their positions, you know. So, I applied for a position with Monarch Airlines in the UK and I joined them as a mechanic working on aircraft and on engines. And I always had a forte  for engines. I loved, you know, being, you know, around engines, et cetera. And I ended up, well, in my time working for Monarch, obtaining my, CAA license without type rating. And I stayed with Monarch for 10 years. And my path took a slight twist then. And I joined a company called Aviation Sales based in Miami, Florida, And Aviation Sales were into aircraft leasing, engine leasing, tear downs, parts, everything. And it gave me a great appreciation for the commercial side of aviation and it's really down to a part number level. And I think, you know, if you're, you know, in that trading environment, it is down to a part number level. So I spent a number of years with Aviation Sales and then progressed to work with Pratt and Whitney. I was in their, what was called their commercial serviceable asset team, and I was responsible for Europe, Middle East, and Africa for the used serviceable material that was predominantly not Pratt product. So we were buying CF six engines. We were buying CFM 56 engines and from the CFM 56 engines, we were feeding that, those engines in for part out into the Pratt engine shop in Norway at the time. And that was quite an exciting period of my career. And it sort of further developed the, you know, my valuations on the engines and getting an understanding of the commercial side of the engines. From that Macquarie, the Australian bank were starting an engine leasing business based in Dublin. And I joined a gentleman called Andrew Pierce in the, you know, the early days of that business. And, we built that business up to approximately 87 engines in about five years. And you know, it, we had a small team of approximately 12 people, in that team. And we, you know, it was quite a successful business. But, for reasons, Macquarie decided to sell the engine leasing business. And they leased, they sold the business to a company called ELFC based in Shannon. From there I moved to a Japanese company, which was MUL Aviation Capital. I joined the business in January, 2012 in Dublin, and, we further went on to purchase Jackson Square Aviation in 2013 and in 2014, we amalgamated both businesses into one. So MUL AC and Jackson Square became one entity at that particular time. Alok-Interesting. I recall when I first met you in Ireland during one of the maybe events, you were still in Macquarie that time. I remember having a brief meeting with you first time, it's interesting how the threats connect. And so, let me ask you this, as the CTO now in Jackson Square Aviation, I believe a CTO's role is possibly not just technical, but also highly commercial oriented, right? It's a kind of an amalgamation that combination of two. Would you care to expand a bit about your current role and what are the skills you think, tech and commercial areas, how they are brought together in the new role, which you do?Aidan-Yeah, I think both are inter intertwined. And quite simply, if I'm explaining, what does a technical team do within an aircraft leasing team? They are basically, asset value protectors. So the, you know, ensuring that we buy an aircraft that's brand new when we lease it out, that when we get it back, that it's the same value, you know, thereabouts as the aircraft should be, and that it's fully, you know, movable that we can move it from one jurisdiction to another jurisdiction. And, you know, and it's in an airworthy condition. Also, we translate in technical, we translate technical problems into dollars. So, it's to quantify an issue if there’s a technical issue on the aircraft that we quantify that for, you know, for the rest of the team. Alok-Would you care to expand with an example maybe? That's a very good analogy. I think you have given that translate technical to dollars maybe. Some example just for the industry. Nothing specific to JSA, but.Aidan-Yeah, so it, and the example that would come to mind is that-you have  a brand new engine or brand new aircraft that you lease to an airline. The airline goes and does a shop visit on the engine. Most, if not all, leases would have value and utility. If you're replacing a part, it must be the same or improved value and utility as the part you're replacing. If the, you know, the airline replaces the parts, say the engine has 27,000 hours on the first run. And they replace the combustor within that engine, and it's got 57,000 hours. That's not the same value in utility because that particular part will only be repairable for a finite number of times. You've lost probably a third of the life of that part if you accept that in your engine. So it’s, that's the type of, and we'd quantify what would that mean for our business. Alok-That’s a very good example. Thanks for expanding upon that. And, you know, let's move on a little bit on the, build upon that point, which you made on the industry trends. As to what we are seeing in the industry today. And, what is, because I think, if I'm not wrong, what I've understood is your background is primarily engines, right? Aidan- It's strongly engines, yeah. But in the last sort of 12 years, it's sort of morphed into more on the airframe side and et cetera. But I, you know, my foundations is certainly is engines. Yeah. Alok- In the role as a CTO of a global lessor as a Jackson Square Aviation, so the way I understand is that Jackson Square is a very interesting business as well, because I think they have a base in San Francisco. And you are based in Dublin. And I think they have offices another parts of the world. So on an operational level, do you in what, you know, there's a unique mix here, right, of American background, Irish center of operation, I think possibly office in Singapore and other jurisdictions too. From an operating culture and a business model point of view, how do you see that? Do you see any, any interesting learnings from there? Any interesting challenges or opportunities which help the business overall? Aidan- Yeah. I, you know, Jackson Square hasn't got the biggest team in the industry. And we're not the biggest, lessor in the industry, nor do we aspire to be. But, we have very, very effective teams. You know, we've got, like in Dublin and San Francisco, we would have you know, all disciplines within the business. We'd, you know, we'd have risk, we'd have technical, we would have pricing, capital markets, commercial. And you know, in Dublin we have, you know, three of our, C-suite executives, and in San Francisco it's approximately the same as well. Communication is key. I think we communicate fairly effectively, you know, globally between each of the teams and also the teams in each of the regions do have a, a lot of autonomy, in, you know, to make decisions and to drive the business. So, yeah. Yeah. Alok- That's interesting. The reason I asked that question was because from where I come from and what we do, we have a globally spread team too. And one of the initial challenges when I was setting it up was how to integrate the work cultures and get them to work as one unit. And I think one key thing you have hit is that the C-suite executives, that leadership is spread around. They're not all focused in one region. I think that may be one of the reasons why it helps to integrate the team together. Right? Aidan- Yeah. I also, yeah, it certainly does. I do think it does contribute. But I think within Jackson Square we have a very flat structure in, you know, we don't have too many levels of layers of management. And also, you know, we, I hope, you know, and we work hard and everyone's voice is heard. And, you know, we have a very respectful culture within our business. You know, like it's, we listen to what people have to say. Alok-So, the next question I have specific to Jackson Square Aviation is, what do you see are the unique strengths in terms of like, what your fleet strategy is? And how do you see Jackson Square as a uniquely positioned lessor among the market? Not necessarily just talking about the competition, but generally the aircraft leasing market. What makes Jackson Square special, let us say. I think that will be a good, good thing to learn. Aidan-Okay, so Jackson Square has today, you know, honour Inner Fleet or to be delivered is approximately 210, 220 aircraft. Within that fleet it's about 25% wide body 75% narrow body. The business is probably about 40% based in Europe, Middle East and, Africa, and 30% in the Americas and in the Asia Pacific. Predominantly our business is sales leasebacks. But we do have an order book with Boeing. And we do have a couple, a number of other financial products that we offer to the market on a limited basis. Our business is really, you know, we're, is driven. Our fleets selection is, you know, we are, in A 320s, the A320 family, the 737 family. And then the wide body is the, you know, the focus is on A350, 787s. And we have a handful of A330s as well. But predominantly our business is driven by what the market is wanting. So we are, sort of, quite heavily, on the A320 more so than the max. And that's not by choice of strategy, that's just what the market is developed over the last number of years because of the grounding. I think the unique selling point that JSA has is that we're very reliable. We do execute and we do, you know, say what we're doing. And also I think our unique selling point, and I say this to within our technical team-what can a technical team bring to our business overall? And that is a level of fairness. We do not try to squeeze every dime out of a lease agreement. You know, we do consciously work and, with our airlines in a very fair and balanced way. And I think that, and that has shown dividends. We've had a number of airlines who've come to us at very short notice and asked us, could we step in because somebody else has stepped away and we've gone and executed business on that basis. Alok- So that leads me to my next question, and I think it's also associated with the fact that you're right now in India. Obviously not your first time here, but I think it's your first time in Bangalore, right? So welcome again, but the question I have is, what is the, I think JSA has quite a few airplanes leased into India? So I would love to know, and that obviously means, the Indian market is an input partner for Jackson Square Aviation. But I would like to know your perspective on today, as a lessor into India, how do you see the Indian market? Aidan- Well, you know, one of our largest lessees is Indigo Airlines, and we've been with Indigo for many years and we have very deep and strong relationship with the airlines. We've seen the recent orders that have come out of India. Indigo, you know, in particular is very large backlog. Air India now, with their recent large orders, you know, with the recent takeover by Tata, they're gonna be such a force, within not just the Indian market, but you know, the whole region. India is, you know, such a large percentage of the world business going ahead. So, yeah, you know, I don't think any lessor can ignore the Indian market. But I think, you know, we'll talk about GoAir. It’s in the media. Jackson Square as all lessors, have had great difficulty with the GoAir situation. The airline went into receivership in May. None of us have they been able to access our records or an aircraft. That is a deep concern and a challenge, I think for aviation in India, but not just aviation. I think the whole of India Inc. is going, it could be affected by this, and I'd hope that there's moves afoot within India in the judicial system to rectify that situation. You know, one of the most simplest, you know, rules in aircraft leasing is can you get your asset back? And if you can't get your asset back, then the question is, should you be doing business in that jurisdiction? Alok-Right. So, obviously what you're talking about is the ratification of the Cape Town Convention. No, India is, and I'm just saying this for the sake of our audience, just to expand upon that. Basically all this is in the, in the news already. Cape Town Convention India is a signature to it. However, India has not made this or codified this into a law, into the Indian system. So unfortunately, the Courts have been taking an opinion that the bankruptcy court, the IBC, takes precedence right now over the rights of the lessor, which are driven by the Cape Town Convention. I am not a legal expert, but just to summarize, that's in a nutshell.Aidan- That’s correct. That’s a good summary.Alok-I think that is what is happening, and, you're right. It does not help the aviation industry in India because Indian aviation is hungry for airplanes. And, lessors like yourself want to enter the market even at a bigger scale and help the airlines to grow, but that requires your assets are protected as well. And that's, I think a fair point to make. And, in the short term, now, see, one of the challenges, and I think this is just leading naturally to the next question, is that GoAir has been claiming, as we all know, that their problems stem from issues with the Pratt agents. There are, in my previous episodes I have spoken to various, experts in the industry, and the opinion is mixed. Although everyone agrees that the engines have problems, yes. But the opinions are mixed about to what level those problems are. And I think I'm very keen to know, what is your perspective, obviously in your unique position as a CTO, but also because you are very well respected in the industry as an engine expert also. So your opinion matters a lot. And, if I may just mention in your career journey, you have been an, you’re an ex-employee of Pratt yourself, right? So it'll be great to know your perspective on the, and it's not just about Pratt, I'm talking about, I'm just talking about new generation engines. And the challenges the industry's having now, in general. Aidan- Yeah. I think, and it is not just Pratt Whitney, you know. Other OEMs are having issues with entry to service on their engines, especially in harsh environments. India would be a similar operating environment, probably slightly less severe than the Middle East, but it still would be a considerably harsh environment to operate engines. And the time on wing, it being achieved on all new engines within harsh environments is not very good. It, you know, it's not just down to Pratt and Whitney. You know, with GoFirst's claim on the reason for the grounding, I think it is a contributing factor, but it's not the only factor that's, you know, caused to the demise of the airline. Alok- What do you see technically the biggest challenge now? Going forward on the engines.Aidan- As a challenge, I think from a technical perspective is the, we were all believing what the OEMs were saying is that the time on wing, the real expectations for the new gen engines would be similar to what the previous generation were. I don't believe that's going to be the case. And I think, the OEMs are, you know, are getting to that similar place. We're seeing increased advice on the cost of maintenance. I think the engine reliability will not be the same as the previous generation. They're running hotter, they're running faster, they've got more complex material in them. So I think, you know, we're going see less time on wing and we're going to see higher shop visit cost. Alok- Do you have any insights or any, do you care to maybe predict when this situation will improve? How this or do you see, this engines technology catching up in terms of the problems the engines are specifically having, in terms of material development or such. Aidan- I think the CFM have stayed, like they have issues on the turbine hardware in harsh environments in particular. They have said that they'll have a fix within the next, you know, 2-3 years that will be within the fleet. I tend to agree to that they'll achieve that you know, stability within the fleet. I still think, you know, the harsh environment will have a severe negative effect. That's a hard with the previous generations in harsh environments. Pratt and Whitney they still have their challenges. They've got the introduction of the advantage engine which should be coming into service towards the end of 2024.  That will remain to be seen.Alok- If today, in this environment over the last few years or now, any airline is specifically starting operation in this region, I think what you're saying is COs or classics are a better choice of assets for now to keep their cost and their serviceability or reliability of fleet up there. Am I right in drawing that conclusion? Aidan-  Yeah. You are.Alok- And possibly the deals and new generation should be let , mature. Aidan- Let mature. Yeah. So the re-paraphrase your question Alok is, you know, startup airlines in a harsh environment, should they be operating new generation engines? My opinion is no. If we take India as an example the V2 500 and the CFM56 added with, operated within the Indian environment very, in a very predictable manner. They were a very stable you know, engine. Now they had a severity factor in higher scrap rates and less time on wing. But you were getting a decent level of time on wing on both those engines. If you know, if it start up airline, no matter how well they are financed, no matter how well they're managed, if you end up with 50% or 40% of your fleet on the ground, it's going to have an impact. Alok- Yeah. And we have a, we have a live example now, at least here in India. And, you know what, it's something very interesting. So, one of the gentlemen who used to work in Acumen's power plant team was Mr. Joe Jacob. And his past life, he used to be the Head of power plant of Jet Airways. There's something he used to say and is recently retired now, not working with us anymore, sadly. But a few months back in a conversation, he mentioned to me something which stuck with me. He said that while it is true that India is a harsher environment for engines, but his point was when the OEMs it's not more just engines, any other product also. When the OEMs make the sales pitch to the airlines in this region, that needs to be already taken into account. They are aware that it's a harsher environment. And the time between shop visits or time on wing, which is sold so to speak, needs to take that into account already. And his one frustration, which he always used to express was it never used to match, the sales pitch, which was there. And I'm sure there are other reasons also for it, not just the environment, but that used to struck me to a point which he used to make. And I take credence on that because he was heading the power plant for Jet Airways for many years. Aidan-  I think the, the man was probably on the money. Yeah. It's, you know, we've seen that you know, when you're buying a car, you're buying anything, you know, paper does not refuse in. Alok- Yeah. That's a good point. A good phrase. So let me ask you this, Aidan. What and what you're doing now, what, from an industry technical leasing perspective, what do you see going forward now in the immediate future, is your biggest fear or challenge? Aidan- My biggest fear today looking at the, you know, from a technical perspective and also a commercial perspective, is the involvement of the OEMs in our business. In particular the engine OEMs and, you know. And not just, you know, being happy to, you know, be produce engines and sell engines and repair engines. But you know, where they're controlling the total MRO market. That's not healthy. And we're seeing that happening with one OEM on the narrow bodies. We've seen it with another OEM on wide bodies, and wide bodies has a limited population of engines, but the narrow body is an extensive. And to have that control over that market is of a particular concern to me. And we're seeing also one of the, not one of the OEMs, actually both of the OEMs coming out with LLP coupons or LLP vouchers at the end of lease. So they're entering, they're giving the airlines, in my opinion could be wrong, is a discount on the LLP pricing. And at the end of the lease where in their airline would particularly, usually, pay the lessor compensation based on the life they consumed during the lease time, there’ll be you know a compensation package required. Now they trying to have lessors accept an LLP credit that would go forward. Now, if you have an engine that, or an aircraft that's 12 years old and the next shop visit is, you know, two, three years, post that shop visit, you know, have an, and you have a 100 percent LLP coupon, the potential for you to crystallise and use the whole value of that LLP voucher is limited. It is a risk that you may not use it and you may be forced to do a shop visit at year 18 plus, which most lessors have no appetite to do. We at the end of the life of the aircraft, it's very much down to engine management because the cost of the engine shop visits at that particular time are pretty, you know, extreme, in comparison to the book value of the aircraft. So you would, you could end up putting $20 million into an 18 year old plus aircraft and under no circumstances with the rent you achieve, you know, cover that investment. So that is of particular concern to me, and how the OEMs are trying to control and influence the lessors business in particular at the, towards the latter stages of the aircraft life. Alok- LLPs, life limited parts of engines is what you're referring to. I want to elaborate on this point a little bit. Would you care to give an example of options to the coupons. This coupon concept, which it was explained, which is frankly I have to admit, is totally new to me. I would love to know what was the case prior to that? Aidan-  Yeah, the case prior to that is traditionally, or up today you would have, the lease would terminate. At the end of the lease, there’s a compensation required and that is based on the life consumed. And that could be the life consumed on the engine, the life consumed on the airframe, but also the life consumed on the life limited parts. And you would have that cash. So you take that cash and you would go to the next lease and you would compensate the next lessee of the aircraft for the maintenance consumed by the previous. What the OEMs are looking to do now, not give, the first lessee will not give cash for the LLP, but they'll give a credit. But that that credit is linked only to that engine or maybe only to a particular part or module within that engine that you can use that credit. So it, and that if you could consume the credit at the first shop visit post the first lease, that may be something that's palatable. But if there's a risk that you're not able to crystallise, use all that credit and you're carrying, and the only way that you can use that credit is at a subsequent shop visit, that’s where it becomes very, very difficult. Alok- Right. Right. And so this is related to the tri-party. Aidan-Nope. There’s nothing to do with tri-party, nothing to do. No there's no tri-party agreement. There is an actual agreement at the end, at least between the OEM and the lessor. Alok- Okay. Okay. So it's related to that though. But the airlines are okay. Aidan- Yes. Yeah. Quite difficult. Alok- Yes. Yes. This is totally new thing. Maybe we need to have a separate episode just to discuss this. This is very interesting. Okay. So I think do we care to move a little bit away from tech? And talk a little bit about your role in the commercial sense a bit given what you do in Jackson Square now. I think we initially mentioned that the role is more techno commercial, right? So, and you did mention with a very good example that you’re, the main role of the department is to serve the, or to protect the asset value, obviously. And I think, so on the commercial side, you know, what skill sets do you see coming in together in your role in there in the business?Aidan- I think the, if I look back at my career I think in the parts trading section, I, it really gives you an understanding on a part number level of what the value of a part is. You know, a simple dash number going from a dash one to dash two can have dramatic effect. So that, you know, gave me a great grounding on the value of an aircraft on a piece-part level. So when, when you take it into the, the day-to-day business, and we're evaluating the condition of an aircraft, whether it be a redelivery or an aircraft or purchasing. I think that's a valuable skillset to have. I don't think anyone can be in a senior technical role within an aviation leasing company that doesn't have a commercial acronym. You know, it's technically if you're working in an airline, a lot of things are black and white. Is it serviceable or is it not serviceable? But when, you know, you're in a leasing company and you're interpreting the condition to certain you know, situations, you need to sort of appreciate the condition and appreciate the risks on forward, but you have to sort of have a commercial acumen to look at what's best for the business. Alok- Yup. And, and that is true. I think it's true for any business. In fact I do recall , one gentleman in the industry here once mentioning to me that one of his frustrations and this, they have a they have a group of engineers in an unrelated area. But they were mentioning one of their frustrations is they struggle to have the engineers who also can get the commercial aspect of the business. As you said, they live in a black and white world. Maybe that is how they need it to be. But then the struggle is sometimes you don't have the commercial acumen, I would say, for lack of a better word. And then that becomes a problem. No pun intended. But that was the only word I could think of. To go on to the, you know another area which from an overall leasing perspective would be interested to know, does Jackson Square has a strategy on P2F? Are you into, are you looking at freighter market or are you already active there? Aidan- We have secured slots for 737 conversions. We made that decision in Covid as an option, as a tool in our asset management of our aircraft. Today the passenger market is very strong and particularly it's very strong on the MG, the 737 MG. So we will keep the passenger, the freighter, you know, slots as part of our decision making process. But, you know, as we get closer to the induction date of those aircraft we'll make a decision whether it's best for us to convert the aircraft or to maybe postpone that to a later date. Alok- So keep it as an option.Aidan- Yeah. But I do see us at some stage being converting aircraft. Yeah. Alok- The market was at a peak few years back, but I mean maybe 2 years back. But now it is a sight of cool down in a way. Aidan- Yeah. But there, I still think or we still think that there is a place with our portfolio for conversions, you know. And there's a, you know, there's a stock of 737 classics that are, you know, in operation today, you know, with various cargo airlines. They’re hitting their life limits now you know. And there may be further retirements coming down the line. Alok- Covid has brought in a lot of changes in how we work now. And I think you and I were agreeing yesterday in a way that there is no going back, it seems to a certain ways, right? What do you see, and I'm just asking this because, being active in Ireland. I see that the market for talent is always very hot, which is a good thing for people there, obviously. But also I think for business leaders like yourself, it could be also a good challenge. To manage, to retain people for long term because replacement is always more expensive no matter what you do. In terms of time also not just cost. So do you care to throw some light on, what do you think the market is like in terms of that? And what do you think is the right way to retain, attract the right kind of people and keep them long term? Aidan- Yeah. If I look at my own career I always had a hunger to learn. I always wanted to do the hard job. I always wanted to, you know, not take the easy job, because I thought it was more of a learning experience when you took the most difficult job that was, you know, available at the time within the different companies I worked in. So I, and I always, I never had a hunger for money in my early career. It was a hunger for experience and education. Like if I looked back, you know, from when I started in the industry for the first 15-17 years, I was constantly learning. Constantly doing type courses. Constantly doing, you know, development courses et cetera. And trying to get, you know, identifying the best people within the team. And I worked with some very, very talented people, and I tried to learn from them. Hiring people, I think it is difficult, and in the current environment. But us in Jackson Square, we've been successful in hiring good people into our team. And I think that's, again, going back to the culture. Within Jackson Square, we have a very respectful culture and for, regardless of what the person's status, and everyone has a voice. So, I do think you know, we've grown. We've grown significantly in, particularly in Dublin in the last two years. And we've been able to hire the to good talent. Regarding, you know, Jackson Square does have a hybrid working team. Sorry. Jackson Square does have a hybrid working policy. That does have its challenges, like it does for all the industry. But I think we work it well. We, you know, it gives people flexibility for quality of life to, you know, balance their home and work life. So yeah it's, I don't believe there's any going back from that now. Alok- And do you like it?Aidan- That's a good question. From myself personally, I go to the office most days. I like the office environment. I like the collaboration in the office, but, I'm respectful, that's not for everyone. Alok- I must say I like the in-person format and basically I'm just stating all the obvious that for me also, I like to be in office more often than not, you know. And I agree that that helps a lot in terms of career growth and opportunities for everyone. That's interesting. See the thing is the whole new work culture and the new workforce, which is coming in, one of the aims of this podcast is to actually appeal to that generation of young executives who are getting in the industry or are, who have just gotten over last few years and are looking to grow their career. You know, I think it'll be, it'll be great for them to know from you, career advice. What do you, what do you tell someone who is starting their career now and just recently started? What should be the right strategy for them to grow? Aidan- I think one of your previous interviewees, you know, nailed it when he said aviation is just not about airlines and engineering. There's many strands that within the aviation business and aircraft leasing is one of those strands. And there's many strands within the aircraft leasing business, you know, from technical to legal, to commercial, to risk, you know, capital markets, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. My advice is very simple. Work hard. You know what, you cannot beat a good work ethic. Attention to detail, you know, is so important because you build your credibility on your attention to detail. And also, you know, surround yourself with strong people. People with experience. Look at who the strong people within the business are, and you know, buddy up the those. And again,  you get paid for your knowledge and your experience within this industry, you know. And so grow that knowledge and experience, you know. Don’t worry about the salary so much in the early days. It's not what it's about. It's getting your experience and knowledge. The salary will come later. Alok- And I think that's a great point and, I hope more people hear it and follow it. It’ll help everyone. And in my own experience also, I think that is the right strategy, I would say. Definitely. One of the questions, Aidan, I have is related to environmental, social and governance responsibilities. ESG is now at the forefront. Even in the investments which are being done, there are investments which are called, so-called green investments, or green funds or ESG compliant funds. And I think your business, given the scale and the kind of shareholding you have, will definitely be, I think one of the key players in that area as well. Would you care to just throw some light on, from Jackson Square's point of view on that? Aidan- Yes, it's certainly a look. Jackson Square has just entered into its first green lease with Air France. And so, you know, and we take ESG very seriously. We have an ESG committee within JSA to look at, you know, our own environmental footprint and what should we be doing. And it also, it does, how can I say, focus our investment decisions, you know. Like we are predominantly solely focused on investing in the latest generation, more fuel efficient engines. And also our shareholders are investing heavily in different initiatives, you know, within the business. Alok- You just mentioned about green lease. Would you care to expand, for our audience, what a green lease is and how is it different from a normal lease? Aidan- Yeah, it’s, there's incentives within the lease agreement that if a certain milestone is reached by the airline, there is a financial incentive for them to do. So they get a reduction in lease rates based on improving their, you know, their environmental footprint. Alok- So example, maybe SAF?Aidan- That could be one. Yes. SAF. Could be in increased use of SAF, or in fleet renewal programs and reducing their emissions over a, you know, a year on year. That could be another one. Yeah. Alok- Do you see increasingly more airlines will opt for that? Aidan- It's certainly something that we are seeing here and there. I'm not too sure. I'm not sure. Alok- Yeah, it'll, I'm sure it'll have its own challenges too, but yes. Okay. That's a new one to add in our podcast green lease. So that brings me to the end of the podcast, Aidan. Thank you very much for your valuable time which you have spared from your busy trip here. One of the, you know, last questions obviously I have is, to any message you want to give to our audience, to the young executives out there, to the industry, people who are going to listen to this and watch this, that will be great. Aidan- Okay. I think, you know, aviation is a very, very exciting industry to be in. It's something, you know that I've, I'm so blessed to have had my career in aviation. And I think, you know, if you enjoy what you're doing, it's not work, you know. And I would say coming into aviation, there's so many pathways, like where I started and where I've ended up is totally different. And it's, you, I don't think it's possible to do a planned career path. I think it's, you know, you come in and get into the industry. If you have a hunger to get into the industry, get in at any level. And that will open doors. And, you know, educate yourself, work hard, and you may take a step one way that will lead you in a totally different direction. But that's okay. You know, like the more experience you have, the better. But I highly recommend this, say industry to any person, any young person to come into. Alok- Great. Well, thank you very much once again. Aidan- Thank you. Alok- And , I hope we do this again soon. Aidan- Okay, pleasure. Thanks again Alok. Cheers.