TW/CW for sexual assault, intimate relationship violence and bullying Spoiler alert: This episode contains spoilers for F4 Thailand, 2010 Boys Over Flowers, 2005 Hana Yori Dango and 2001 Meteor Garden. A year after we recorded our Boys Over Flowers episode, we’re back with our second deep dive on F4 Thailand: Boys Over Flowers, the latest addition to the Hana Yori Dango universe. We all agree that this show is already a modern classic and is by far the best adaptation of this problematic teen franchise. If you haven’t already listened to our deep dive on episodes 1-9, you can listen here: https://audioboom.com/posts/8038424-f4-thailand-boys-over-flowers-episodes-1-9  1:58 Background on the Hana Yori Dango universe 4:42 Episode discussion begins.  5:47: We discuss the huge challenges that director Patha Thongpan faced while making F4 Thailand, which he shared with fans on social media. They include budget, PPL, covid, and not enough episodes to fully tell the story. Despite any shortfalls in the second half of the narrative, we all love this adaptation and think it’s a modern classic and the best Hana Yori Dango adaptation ever.  9:35: Katherine makes a bold statement and declares Thailand's F4 entrance scene to be even better than the iconic Korean entrance scene. The rest of us agree! 11:50: Vickey also makes a bold statement and declares the Thailand’s F4 to be the best looking of all the adaptations and Alisa gives and AMEN to that  13:02: Alisa reads a Francois Truffault quote she tweeted on Great Flawed Films that applies to F4 Thailand being a Great Flawed Drama:  “I want to define what I mean by a “great flawed film.” It is simply a masterpiece that has aborted, an ambitious project weakened by some errors in the making: a fine screenplay that is “unshootable,” an inadequate cast, a shooting contaminated by hatred or blinded by love, or an inordinate gap between the original intention and the final execution. This notion of “great flawed films” can apply only to the works of a great director—one who has demonstrated that in other circumstances he can achieve perfection. In an overall view of his achievements, a true cinéphile may, on occasion, prefer such a director’s “great flawed film” to one of his acknowledged masterpieces—thereby preferring, for example, A King in New York to The Gold Rush, or The Rules of the Game to Grand Illusion. If one accepts the concept that a perfect execution often conceals the film-maker’s intentions, one must admit that the “great flawed film” may reveal more vividly the picture’s raison d’etre. “I might also point out that, while the masterpiece does not necessarily arouse the viewer’s emotions, the “great flawed film” frequently does—which accounts for the fact that the latter is more apt to become what the American critics call a “cult film” than is the masterpiece. “I would add that the “great flawed film” is often harmed by an excess of sincerity. Paradoxically, this sincerity makes it clearer to the aficionados, but more obscure to the general public, which has been conditioned to absorb mixtures that give priority to gimmicks rather than to straightforward confessions.” 15:32: We discuss a photo shared by one of the F4 Thailand writers of a whiteboard where they brainstormed themes for the drama. With a special shoutout to @BeLight_21on Twitter for translating it for English speakers. https://twitter.com/BeLight_21/status/1513346654878928896   17:47: Melanie mentions that the production had to incorporate 36 different sponsors with specific requirements into the storytelling and how it impacted the drama, especially in the second half as the number of sponsors grew (including the MJ KFC ad, lawd).  19:11: We discuss how key staff dropped out of the project along the way, including their Director of Photography which is huge because a big part of the appeal of F4 Thailand is the cinematography. 19:38: The production was originally only supposed to have 13 episodes! Patha had to fight for 16. We all agree the drama could’ve easily been 20 episodes but we were lucky to get as many episodes as we got. 20:53: Last screenplay revision was February 9 and the last day of filming was February 14 for airing in April which is bananas.  23:06: Alisa reads a beautiful quote from Patha regarding how he worked with his actors:  “We will not let any actor die in the series. Everyone must be good in their own way. And every time we had an extra take and the boys fight until they can do it right, the audience saw it and appreciated it from the heart.” 27:20: We quote our friend Faith from the Accidental Kiss podcast: https://twitter.com/accidental_kiss/status/1513709973137633285  “Being based on HYD really simultaneously helped and shot this series in the foot. It wouldn’t have gotten as many sponsors and freedom to do what they wanted if it hadn’t been based on this tried and tested cash grab. They also wouldn’t have gotten as big of an audience.   But having to follow the original plot also cost them a lot of really good character development and growth. Thyme’s character development was handle excellently. They did the impossible: they truly redeemed the male lead in a Hana Yori Dango adaptation” 28:14: Vickey says Thyme is the best version of the HYD male lead and we all agree. He’s a complex and sympathetic character and we all wanted better for him. They weren’t being apologists for his character. And it was impressive that they sent the message that his behavior wasn’t okay. Also Bright 31:41: We dive into Episode 11: The Atonement which is one of the most important episodes in the series.  39:25: We get into what didn’t work for us in the second half of the drama, especially Gorya’s lack of development (we say this with full love for F4 Thailand and knowing all the struggles the production faced to get the drama completed). This includes a quote from friend of the podcast RK who is @roh_tweets on Twitter: I feel bad that I can't join you, but please to share with your audience my disappointment that F4T (maybe b/c the HYD framework they couldn't escape) was not ultimately Gorya's story. I feel the last couple of episodes let her down a bit, especially considering how well drawn she was in the first several episodes. 45:19: Alisa says she hated episodes 14 and 16 and everyone pretty much agrees with her. That Isuzu product placement 46:54: We read a comment from friend of the podcast JustCallMePam on Discord:  “Something came to me before I rewatched 16- I’d been saying that I thought the creators  were prioritizing their sociopolitical commentary over the love  story - economic inequality, power dynamics, anti-patriarchal lens-  and they did those things incredibly well. BUT then they hit  14-16 and in February were like oh wait fml we gotta wrap up this teen love story honoring the narrative of the manga, feeding a ravenous fandom and having it make a wee bit of sense. Hmmm. OK GUYS I GOT IT…DANCING!” 49:42: We read a quote from alex @paranoyster_18 on Twitter https://twitter.com/paranoyster_18/status/1515248424467439618 on why Gorya goes to prom in her uniform:  “To me, it’s the longhand and metaphorical way of showing that Thyme loves Gorya’s authentic and messy self that can never be dulled with any appearance, any beautiful dress or any expensive jewelry”  51:41: We discuss Roselyn and why her redemption didn’t work for us (but we all loved Cindy’s performance in episode 16). 57:04: We all thought Lita was a great character and applaud Milk for her amazing performance. 58:39: Alisa dives into episode 12, aka the part where sex enters the chat, and how beautifully the show handled sexual desire in teenagers without being gross about it.  1:03:15: We get into the first kiss and why were were underwhelmed With a shoutout to @shinesforbright for changing their account name to Thyme is a Bad Kisser but It’s Okay  https://twitter.com/daebakpodcast1/status/1505329867021189120  1:05:57: We discuss the Kaning and Kavin episode and unfortunately we felt like the payoff wasn’t there (she spent all that time on Bangkok rooftops but she didn't get much in the end).  But Thyme as the hotel owner was realllllly working for Alisa and Vickey. 1:10:50: We celebrate the friendship of the F4 which has a dimension that doesn’t exist in other HYD adaptations and also shoutout how complex and well drawn each character is. Also Ren’s confession to Gorya in episode 15 is 1:14:50: We list our favorite episodes. Episode 9: The Incident of 1% and Episode 7: The Four Flowers top everyone’s lists.  1:17:07: We shoutout Drama Analyst @drama_analyst for her thread diving into F4 Thailand’s portrayal of Thyme’s mental health:   https://twitter.com/drama_analyst/status/1515015365411192834  1:27:44: We discuss the business side of things: how GMMTV is making a play for the international market and how F4 Thailand helped with that goal. Also why it’s highly unlikely that F4 Thailand will get a movie or additional episodes. 1:40:10: Closing thoughts on F4 Thailand. Spoiler: we all think it’s a modern classic and we are grateful to Patha Thongpan for persevering through adversity to bring it to us. We’re also grateful to the fans who made watching this so memorable.